The Rohingya Of Myanmar - Pawns In An Anglo-Chinese Proxy War Fought By Saudi Jihadists
By Moon of Alabama
Sep 5, 2017 - 3:12:50 AM
Media attention is directed to some minor ethnic violence in Myanmar, the former Burma. The story in the "western" press is of Muslim Rohingya unfairly vilified, chased out and killed by Buddhist mobs and the army in the state of Rakhine near the border to Bangladesh. The "liberal human interventionists" like Human Rights Watch are united with Islamists likeTurkey's President Erdogan in loudly lamenting the plight of the Rohingya.
That curious alliance also occurred during the wars on Libya and Syria. It is by now a warning sign. Could there be more behind this than some local conflict in Myanmar? Is someone stocking a fire?
While the ethnic conflict in Rankine state is very old, it has over the last years morphed into an Jihadist guerilla war financed and led from Saudi Arabia. The area is of geo-strategic interest:
Rakhine plays an important part in [the Chinese One Belt One Road Initiative] OBOR, as it is an exit to Indian Ocean and the location of planned billion-dollar Chinese projects-a planned economic zone on Ramree Island, and the Kyaukphyu deep-sea port, which has oil and natural gas pipelines linked with Yunnan Province's Kunming.
Pipelines from the western coast of Myanmar eastwards to China allow hydrocarbon imports from the Persian Gulf to China while avoiding the bottleneck of the Strait of Malacca and disputed parts of the South China Sea.
It is in "Western interest" to hinder China's projects in Myanmar. Inciting Jihad in Rakhine could help to achieve that. There is historic precedence for such a proxy war in Burma. During World War II British imperial forces incited the Rohingya Muslim in Rakhine to fight Burmese nationalist Buddhists allied with Japanese imperialists.
The Rohingya immigrated to the northern parts of Arakan, today's Rakhine state of Myanmar, since the 16th century. A large wave came under British imperial occupation some hundred years ago. Illegal immigration from Bangladesh continued over the last decades. In total about 1.1 million of Muslim Rohingya live in Myanmar. The birthrate of the Rohingya is said to be higher than that of the local Arakanese Buddhists. These feel under pressure in their own land.
While these populations are mixed in some towns there are many hamlets that belong 100% to either one. There is generally little integration of Rohingya within Myanmar. Most are officially not accepted as citizens. Over the centuries and the last decades there have been several violent episodes between the immigrants and the local people. The last Muslim-Buddhist conflict raged in 2012.
Since then a clearly Islamist insurgency was build up in the area. It acts under the name Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA) and is led by Ataullah abu Ammar Junjuni, a Jihadist from Pakistan. (ARSA earlier operated under the name Harakah al-Yakin, or Faith Movement.) Ataullah was born into the large Rohingya community of Karachi, Pakistan. He grew up and was educated in Saudi Arabia. He received military training in Pakistan and worked as Wahhabi Imam in Saudi Arabia before he came to Myanmar. He has since brainwashed, hired and trained a local guerrilla army of some 1,000 Takfiris.
According to a 2015 report in the Pakistani newspaper Dawn there are more than 500,000 Rohingya in Karachi. They came from Bangladesh during the 1970s and 1980s on the behest on General Ziaul Haq's military regime and the CIA to fight the Soviets and the government of Afghanistan:
Rohingya community [in Karachi] is more inclined towards religion and they send their children to madressahs. It is a major reason that many religious parties, especially the Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat, the JI and the Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam-Fazl, have their organisational set-up in Burmese neighborhoods.
"A number of Rohingya members living in Arakan Abad have lost their relatives in recent attacks by Buddhist mobs in June 2012 in Myanmar," said Mohammad Fazil, a local JI activist.
Rohingyas in Karachi regularly collect donations, Zakat and hides of sacrificial animals and send these to Myanmar and Bangladesh to support the displaced families.
Reuters noted in late 2016 that the Jihadist group is trained, led and financed through Pakistan and Saudi Arabia:
A group of Rohingya Muslims that attacked Myanmar border guards in October is headed by people with links to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, the International Crisis Group (ICG) said on Thursday, citing members of the group.
"Though not confirmed, there are indications [Ataullah] went to Pakistan and possibly elsewhere, and that he received practical training in modern guerrilla warfare," the group said. It noted that Ata Ullah was one of 20 Rohingya from Saudi Arabia leading the group's operations in Rakhine State.
Separately, a committee of 20 senior Rohingya emigres oversees the group, which has headquarters in Mecca, the ICG said.
The ARSA Jihadists claim to only attack government forces but civilian Arakanese Buddhists have also been ambushed and massacred. Bugghist hamlets were also burned down.
The government of Myanmar alleges that Ataullah and his group want to declare an independent Islamic State. In October 2016 his group started to attack police and other government forces in the area. On August 25 this year his group attacked 30 police stations and military outposts and killed some 12 policemen. The army and police responded, as is usual in this conflict, by burning down Rohingya townships suspected of hiding guerilla forces.
To escape the growing violence many local Arakanese Buddhist flee their towns towards the capitol of Rankine. Local Rohingya Muslim flee across the border to Bangladesh. Only the later refugees seem to get international attention.
The Myanmar army has ruled the country for decades. Under economic pressure it nominally opened up to the "west" and instituted "democracy". The darling of the "west" in Myanmar is Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. Her party won the elections and she has a dominant role in the government. But Aung San Suu Kyi is foremost a nationalist and the real power is still held by the generals.
While Aung San Suu Kyi was propped up as democratic icon she has little personal merit except being the daughter of Thakin Aung San, a famous leader of the Burma Independence Army (BIA) and the "father of the nation". In the 1940s Thakin Aung San was recruited by the Imperial Japanese Army to wage a guerrilla war against the colonial British army and the British supply line to anti-Japanese forces in China:
The young Aung San learned to wear Japanese traditional clothing, speak the language, and even took a Japanese name. In historian Thant Myint-U's "The River of Lost Footsteps," he describes him as "apparently getting swept away in all the fascist euphoria surrounding him," but notes that his commitment remained to independence for Myanmar.
The ethnic strife in Rakhine also played a role in the British-Japanese conflict over Burma:
In April 1942, Japanese troops advanced into Rakhine State and reached Maungdaw Township, near the border with what was then British India, and is now Bangladesh. As the British retreated to India, Rakhine became a front line.
Local Arakanese Buddhists collaborated with the BIA and Japanese forces but the British recruited area Muslims to counter the Japanese.
"Both armies, British and Japanese, exploited the frictions and animosity in the local population to further their own military aims," wrote scholar Moshe Yegar
When the British won against the Japanese Thakin Aung San change sides and negotiated the end of British imperial rule over Burma. He was assassinated in 1947 with the help of British officers. Since then Burma, later renamed to Myanmar, was ruled by ever competing factions of the military.
Thakin Aung San's daughter Aung San Suu Kyi received a British education and was build up for a role in Myanmar. In the 1980s and 90s she quarreled with the military government. She was given a Nobel Peace Price and was promoted as progressive defender of human rights by the "western" literati. But she, and the National League for Democracy (NLD). she leads, were always the opposite - ultra-right fascists in Buddhist Saffron robes. The hypocrites are now disappointed that she does not speak out in favor of the Rohingya. But doing so would put her on the opposite side her father had famously fought for. It would also put her in opposition to most of the people in Myanmar who have little sympathy for the Rohingya and their Jihadi fight.
Moreover - the Chinese OBOR projects are a huge bon for Myanmar and will help with its economic development. The Saudis and Pakistani send guerilla commanders and money to incite the Rohingya to Jihad in Myanmar. This is a historic repeat of the CIA operation against Soviet influence in Afghanistan. But unlike in Afghanistan the people of Myanmar are not Muslim they will surely fight against, not join, any Jihad in their country. The Rohingya are now pawns in the great game and will suffer from it.
Posted by b on September 4, 2017 at 03:08 PM | Permalink
Map should also mention Bangladesh to the west of Myanmar and not only India. I've travelled to Myanmar 20 years ago, a beautiful and rich country sadly stuck in a West Vs China grand game akin to Afghanistan (on a geopolitical level)..
Posted by: Lozion | Sep 4, 2017 3:55:07 PM | 1
what an enlightening article, which hopefully is basically true. If it is, than the media Truth is basically false, which stands to reason. b is a great resource for foreign affairs where the deceit is thickly encrusted historically.
Posted by: folktruther | Sep 4, 2017 4:40:23 PM | 2
@Lozion - you are right. While that map is pretty it also depicts historic borders. I have now replaced it with a current one.
Posted by: b | Sep 4, 2017 4:49:03 PM | 3
Soros is reportedly funding something called the Burma Task Force which is helping generate division and conflict. The BTF was created by a US-based NGO. So it is similar to equivalent GONGOs there operated in Syria. As is the MO.
"The confrontation between the military and Muslim Rohingya in Myanmar escalated on 25 August when radical Islamists attacked the police. Then a few hundred insurgents of movement "the Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army", which the Republic's authorities consider a terrorist organization, attacked the 30 strong points of the police. They used firearms, machetes and improvised explosive devices, killing 109 people. Responsibility for attack was assumed by "the Liberation Army Rohingya" extremist militant Islamist organization operating in Myanmar. Earlier, in July 2017, the government accused Islamic extremists for the murder of seven local residents."
Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 4, 2017 5:09:09 PM | 4
My two-part analysis on the "Rohingha" issue from summer 2015 is still as relevant as ever two years later:
"The plight of the Rohingyas elicits understandable concern from many, but the unfortunate aspect is that the US is manipulating the world's short-term emotional response to the current migrant crisis in order to pursue its long-term geopolitical interests in South Asia.
The intended creation of a pro-American autonomous or independent Rohingyaland is akin to the same strategic pattern that it first spearheaded in "Kosovo", except the US can now achieve its goals via the indirect Hybrid War lessons that it's perfected in Syria.
The crusade for state creation is inherently tied to the destruction of the targeted host state, which in this case would see Rohingyaland (and perhaps many other ethnic nation-states) being baptized through a sea of fire in separating from Myanmar.
The US has concrete geopolitical reasons for why it supports the Rohingyas, chiefly concerning the establishment of its first intended base in mainland South Asia and its desire to cut off China's non-Malacca pipeline routes through Myanmar.
Additionally, with a firm regional outpost in Rohingyaland (whether direct or via proxy), the US can obstruct the multipolar BCIM trade corridor and leverage influence in Bangladesh, Northeast India, the rest of Myanmar, and perhaps even further afield in Yunnan Province.
The coming months will be indicative of how far the US plans to go in supporting Rohingyaland, but by all current indications, it seems that this is a cause which Washington won't give up on anytime soon."
Posted by: Andrew Korybko | Sep 4, 2017 5:09:52 PM | 5
I published a book-length analytical series on Myanmar last year that I'm sharing for relevancy:
"If China somehow manages to clinch a deal with Suu Kyi that preserves its influence in the country and safeguards its strategic pipeline assets there (to say nothing of possibly expanding its infrastructure investments), then it's predicted that the US would respond by unleashing a Hybrid War against the country, preferring to see Myanmar totally destroyed than ever again functioning as a reliable multipolar springboard for Beijing."
PART I: History
PART II: Political Transition And Geostrategy
PART III: Ethno-Regional Contradictions
PART IV: Scenario Forecasting
Posted by: Andrew Korybko | Sep 4, 2017 5:10:37 PM | 6
That's an interesting bit of information, thanks.
I've also come to some hypothesis this weekend, when thinking about India - wholly unrelated to Myanmar at the time.
Myanmar is 90+% Buddhist, the current fertility rate is at 2.0, which is good per se, but is surprisingly low for a poor 3rd world country, and has been lower than average for a long time. Comes from Buddhism, where celibacy is considered fine and where many people live a few years as monks - therefore cutting down the number of years where people can actually have kids. Islam has a quite different view, overall - still, Bangladeshi rate seems to have dropped quite a lot in the last few years, though it was quite high at the end of 20th century (far higher than in Myanmar). Odds are that Rohingya rates are closer to Bangladeshi than to Buddhist Burmese.
Which brings me to the key point. As Lozion mentioned in @1, there's Bangladesh at the North-West, with a quite lengthy border, though hilly and mountainous mostly. Rohingya are basically considered a (more or less recent) immigration from there.
Thing is, Bangladesh has more than 3 times the population of Myanmar - and will probably go to 4 times by the time both demographic growths stop -, but the country is less than 1/4th of Myanmar's size.
Bangladesh is right now insanely overpopulated, and things will get worse with climate change, more typhoons, floods, and in the long run rise of sea level. It's been a trope of global warming that Bangladesh is one of the most exposed sizable country, if not the most, and mankind might have to deal with tens of millions, if not two hundred millions, of refugees one day.
Now, let's look at a map. West and North, there's India - far more populated than Bangladesh, nearly as dense in some places, and far more militarily powerful; besides, they actually helped the country to become independant from Pakistan. Farther North, there's the Himalayas and then China (well, Tibet). South, there's the sea. Which leaves East/South-East, with the far less populous and far less densely populated Myanmar.
If things go badly, where would you expect a mass migration from Bangladesh to go?
Bottom line is, I now suspect that some in Myanmar leadership are pretty much scared shitless that they'll have to deal with a flood of tens of millions of Bangladeshis at some point later in the 21th century, and it'll be pretty hard to resist it. Being ruthless towards the way less numerous current immigration (including century-old, to be honest) is possibly seen as a way to deter as long as possible the incoming catastrophe. Not sure it'll be that effective, though - expelling and killing by the thousands a closely related population might upset the Bangladeshi people to the point they wouldn't hesitate to take some future revenge on Myanmar.
Since the pipeline and Silk Road projects were probably not as advanced back in 2011-12, when the current violences erupted, I think these are possible additional factors to take into consideration. Even if a very recent jihadi threat would be an emergency deserving to be dealt with as soon as possible, explaining the 2017 level of violence.
I also wonder if this will be contained and beaten down, or if it's going to be a long-lasting local jihadi guerrilla (like in Southern Philippines). I also wonder if they'll stick to Rakhine or will try to stage some terrorist actions deeper into Myanmar - tourism is growing a lot and brings a lot of money. But that might be harder if the Muslim population is so few in the rest of the country. Most of the rising tide of tourists also comes from China - so in a way, if some of the jihadi backers want to stick it to Beijing, it might be interesting to expand the range of operations, but on the other hand, it might be a terrible idea if China is so upset it sends massive aid to Myanmar's government to crush the rebellion.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Sep 4, 2017 5:15:15 PM | 7
The Clash of Civilization is real. Conflicts between peoples spreads in an arc across Eurasia. It is appearing in second generation of disadvantaged Muslims in Europe through the Middle East to Burma, Thailand and the Philippines. There is a blackout of it in corporate media. It is not by happenstance that the Rohingya are coming to Minnesota to work in poultry processing plants.
The return to tribal ethnic fanaticism is the human response to growing economic inequality, over population, war for profit and climate change.
Posted by: VietnamVet | Sep 4, 2017 5:19:24 PM | 8
Disappointing article from B, who I regularly praise on SyrianPerspective.com where I often cite the high quality and analytical excellence of his work.
Even if the US is exploiting real ethnic grievances and tensions in the area it shouldn't be used to demonize and vilify the Rohingyas.
1. Before 1982 they were citizens of Myanmar and their citizenship was simply removed.
2. The Bamar ethnic group that rule Myanmar despise other non-Bamar ethnicities including the Karen, Kachin (heavily Christian), Shan and others. Their problem is not exclusively with the Rohingyas and they have destroyed many churches as well as having expelled Indian Hindus in the past.
3. A Rohingya statelet in northern Rakhine or even containing part of the northern Rakhine coast would be no great impediment to China having a sea connection via Myanmar as the Myanmar coast is far longer than northern Rakhine.
4. Pakistan is a close ally of China, as well as the Myanmar regime, which it has agreed to sell its fighter jets to. In fact Pakistan has its own part of the Chinese OBOR plan which is the CPEC which includes the southern Pakistani port of Gwadar.
The bottom line is that the Rohingyas are people of Myanmar and should not be ethnically cleansed and genocided or treated like trash.
Posted by: Muslim Dude | Sep 4, 2017 6:17:24 PM | 9
thanks b... informative article... another one of those some guy gets trained/educated in saudi arabia, from pakistan and is involved in jihadi.... thank you wahabbi freaks for another shitfest in another part of the world... i guess i need to thank the cia first and foremost for propping up that crazy medival circus called saudi arabia... all that oil money put into educating these whack jobs is more of what the world needs according to the war party...
"Ataullah abu Ammar Junjuni, a Jihadist from Pakistan. (ARSA earlier operated under the name Harakah al-Yakin, or Faith Movement.) Ataullah was born into the large Rohingya community of Karachi, Pakistan. He grew up and was educated in Saudi Arabia. He received military training in Pakistan and worked as Wahhabi Imam in Saudi Arabia before he came to Myanmar. He has since brainwashed, hired and trained a local guerrilla army of some 1,000 Takfiris."
lets put new lipstick on the same friggin mess and call it by some new name...
@ 9 muslim dude... i guess you are for jihadi light or something... do you practice the religion of saudi arabia too?
Posted by: james | Sep 4, 2017 6:41:14 PM | 10
I imagine the US views the Chinese Silk Road project the same way the British viewed the Berlin to Baghdad railway pre WWI. To me it looked like a win-win project for all those involved - of course, the Chinese winning more but hey they are financing it. This situation does sound like the new and improved 21st century way of throwing a monkey wrench into the project. The infrastructure proposed,spread out over thousands of miles,going through many countries would be very vulnerable to any jihadis operating in the area. A lose-lose project that the US Empire and it allies fund more and more. As has been mentioned by others - the US is excellent at turning countries into rubble. "They make it a wasteland, and call it peace." Tacitus
Posted by: gepay | Sep 4, 2017 6:43:12 PM | 11
I'm well acquainted with Muslim Dude from the SyrPers website and can say in no way whatsoever does he dabble in the pseudo Islam promoted by the Sauds.
I thought the chaos in Myanmar would be used by the Outlaw US Empire for the purpose described, which effectively proves there was never any real attempt by Trump to make good on his pledge to cease seeking Full Spectrum Dominance.
However, I'd really like to see Trump attempt to sever trade with China. Would he be "deposed" as rapidly as Assange seems to think? https://www.rt.com/news/401929-assange-trump-trade-china/
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 4, 2017 7:05:46 PM | 12
Andrew #5. The Kosovo precedent also came to mind. In 1890 the Serbs made up 60-70% of the Kosovo population but by 1990 it had dropped to less than 20%. Lower birth rate and near unchecked immigration from Albania did them in. Once it became clear the US policy was anti-Serb all was need was for a Kosovo lib army be formed that started killing Serb traffic cops. Efforts by the Serbs to put down this violence resulted in the US declaring war on them.
It does look somewhat bleak for the Buddhist majority in Myamar -- caught in the middle but on the wrong side of the US.
Posted by: ToivoS | Sep 4, 2017 7:16:23 PM | 13
Islamists have to realize that they can't put the caliphate tent up wherever they want. Seems pretty cut and dry. That'd be like if a breakaway Christian church established it's own "caliphate" in the middle of the US...oh say in Utah and instituted illegal marital rights like polygamy and was just plain wacky. Not gonna happen!
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 4, 2017 8:14:40 PM | 14
Tony Cartalucci has written a number of well researched articles on Myanmar. According to the article in the the first link it was the NED candidate and her followers that prevented the military government renewing Rohinga citizenship.
Looks like the US/Uk are playing both sides in a deliberate attemt to create an ISIS type problem in Myanmar. On the one hand denying them citezenship to creat unrest, on on the other side, introducing wahhabi's to gather them up.
Some time ago, it became very noticable to me, that although five-eyes were encouraging Europe and Asia Pacific countries to take in huge numbers of refugees, they were taking none or very few in themselves. Some time ago, there was suddenly a massive number of Ruhinga refugees in boats that US was urging various countries to take in. Who supplied the boats?
The large and predominantly muslem movements of refugees seems to have been engineered to move jihadi's around via large numbers of undocumented migrants/refugees.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 4, 2017 8:18:01 PM | 15
@12 karlof1.. thanks.. i don't like calling out someone like that, but i couldn't understand where they were coming from.. i fully agree with muslim dudes last line... i think this is true for many people of the world.. i see this sickness saudi arabia is spreading around the globe as serious cause for concern.. looks like they are at it here too under the guise of nationalism...
"One of the several dozen videotapes obtained by CNN from Al-Qaeda's archives in Afghanistan in August 2002 allegedly showed fighters from Myanmar training in Afghanistan. Other videotapes were marked with "Myanmar" in Arabic, and it was assumed that the footage was shot in Myanmar, though this has not been validated. According to intelligence sources in Asia,[who?] Rohingya recruits in the RSO were paid a 30,000 Bangladeshi taka ($525 USD) enlistment reward, and a salary of 10,000 taka ($175) per month. Families of fighters who were killed in action were offered 100,000 taka ($1,750) in compensation, a promise which lured many young Rohingya men, who were mostly very poor, to travel to Pakistan, where they would train and then perform suicide attacks in Afghanistan."
from - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_Solidarity_Organisation
Posted by: james | Sep 4, 2017 8:28:29 PM | 16
b ended his post with: The Rohingya are now pawns in the great game and will suffer from it.
The great game makes pawns of all of us to some degree and its only the level of suffering that differs. The great game is played by the "winners" in our world. The great game was built centuries ago by the winners coming out of the feudal era when laws institutionalizing private property and inheritance were created.
When does the extension of the divine right of kings into ongoing ownership of private property through inheritance outgrow its usefulness in a world of 8 billion people?
Why does the great game process not detail the effects of having a small cabal of families control the basics of economic interface for centuries?
The world of pawns are all Rohingya to the elite.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 4, 2017 8:38:09 PM | 17
"Disappointing article from B, who I regularly praise on SyrianPerspective.com where I often cite the high quality and analytical excellence of his work.
"Even if the US is exploiting real ethnic grievances and tensions i"n the area it shouldn't be used to demonize and vilify the Rohingyas."
If it isn't right, it's natural for everyone to have blind spots, and I find liberals to have the worst blind spots when they're sympathetic to a vague minority group outside of 'the West.'
"1. Before 1982 they were citizens of Myanmar and their citizenship was simply removed."
Was this a consequence of political transition, armed insurgency, public opinion, or something else? It's important to explain the situation if you want us to take you seriously.
"2. The Bamar ethnic group that rule Myanmar despise other non-Bamar ethnicities including the Karen, Kachin (heavily Christian), Shan and others. Their problem is not exclusively with the Rohingyas and they have destroyed many churches as well as having expelled Indian Hindus in the past."
This is just an appeal to a vague 'pathology of the state,' and not an explanation. Violent bigotry is a problem the world over. Why is it the way it is in Myanmar?
"3. A Rohingya statelet in northern Rakhine or even containing part of the northern Rakhine coast would be no great impediment to China having a sea connection via Myanmar as the Myanmar coast is far longer than northern Rakhine."
So, a U.N. mandated partition is your solution? Have fun being disappointed.
"4. Pakistan is a close ally of China, as well as the Myanmar regime, which it has agreed to sell its fighter jets to. In fact Pakistan has its own part of the Chinese OBOR plan which is the CPEC which includes the southern Pakistani port of Gwadar."
This implies a fundamentalist Islamic state, or any state, is genuine and consistent in its geopolitical and financial allegiances. If you look at Syria, you see that implication is, at least, up for debate.
"The bottom line is that the Rohingyas are people of Myanmar and should not be ethnically cleansed and genocided or treated like trash."
The bottom line is Myanmar is one of one hundred conflicts in the world, and is only discussed because special interests in the U.S. see a value in making it an issue to discuss. If I remember correctly, far worse 'ethnic cleansing' is being committed by foreign (resource extraction) companies in Colombia (millions forced from their homes over the last decade), and the army, militia, and police assisting them, however, I don't see the U.S. calling for partition, and I don't see China telling the U.S. it will militarize half of South America if reform isn't made and the settlement of a single conflict (or the conflicts in Honduras and Venezuela) isn't reached.
Posted by: anonymous | Sep 4, 2017 8:55:28 PM | 18
Above comment is directed to you.
Unfortunately, understanding and answering broader economic and political questions (globally) has been replaced by apolitical (or semi-political) morality in liberal circles.
Posted by: anonymous | Sep 4, 2017 8:59:08 PM | 19
WHICH SIDE SHOULD ONE SUPPORT?
It looks like the Empire has not decided yet which side to support in the Rakhine conflict. Some of the latest headlines:
BBC News, 25 August 2017:
Myanmar tensions: Dozens dead in Rakhine militant attack
Attacks by militants on police posts in Myanmar's Rakhine state have left 71 people, including 12 security personnel, dead, the authorities say.
The Independent, 1 September 2017:
Burma: More than 100 Rohingya Muslims massacred in Rakhine state, reports claim
More than 100 Rohingya Muslims are alleged to have been killed in a massacre by Burmese security forces and Buddhist vigilantes.
One word of advice: One half of the massacre videos and photographs from Rakhine are fake. Never trust a photo from an unknown source. Start with a Google image search. In most cases this will reveal the fakes. If the photos are authentic, then Google will surely know about them and return a better source.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 4, 2017 9:12:23 PM | 20
I too would like to support what Muslim Dude wrote. Of course amerika and its obscene collection of slimy carpet-baggers and anything for a dollar camp-followers have gotten themselves into what they consider a good game that has a possibility of them hitting the main chance, scumbags be scumbags, but we do need to remember that those human beings currently referred to as Rohinga were invited into Arakan at the behest of the leader of the indigenous population way back in the 16th century. They weren't all followers of Islam either - there were Hindus as well as other religions practised by the artisans which successive Kings of Arakan encouraged to move into their peoples' nation, which in todays's terms we would call proudly multicultural.
Indigenous Arakanese are some of the first followers of the Buddha and they practiced their religion in the fashion the Buddha taught the philosophy. This is the one which too many westerners imagine is the belief systems of Thailand Burma and Indochina. Unfortunately it isn't. Religions become corrupted by politicians the moment they agree to become 'established' and allow themselves to be used to buttress the typically self interested choices of the ruling elite.
Regrettably for the Arakanese, the Burmans to the south east (alleged by some to be the descendants of Mongol invaders themselves) had reinterpreted Buddhism in just such a way to better meet the needs of their leaders. The Burmans, one of the earliest adopters of what we now know to be Buddhist fascism, invaded Arakan in 1784 deposing the enlightened rule of the inhabitants and imposing burman rule from afar.
The invasion was bloody and the capital city was razed to the ground.
Since then the traditional colonial practice of divide and rule has been used relentlessly in an attempt to drive a wedge between the muslims, hindus and buddhists, but the innate pacificism of the Arakan culture has made that pretty unsuccessful. I would be interested to see any evidence of Rohinga attacks upon the local population because I cannot imagine any such attack would have a motive much less support from Rohinga themselves.
Attacks upon the Burman imperialists - yes that is conceivable as a way of either self-protection or vengeance.
This is a really delicate situation one that must be resolved local free of interference from KSA, amerika or Naypyidaw. I'm sorry b but I do not trust the Aung San witch as far as I could spit her. She isn't merely a deceitful political opportunist, like her father she considers Burma=burman and is likely the driving force behind the oppression of Burma's islamic people.
Those of you who have been led to believe that the so-called Rohinga are johnny come lately immigrants would be wise to consider that many of these families have been living in Burma longer than whitefellas have been in amerika, there is one major difference tho - unlike amerikan whitefellas, Burma's islamic people were invited to come by the indigenous population of Arakan.
Now I know that my desire to see the usual assholes stay outta this is just pissing in the wind, but I do reckon that the impetus to pick one side and stick with it come what may because it appears ostensibly, at least, to the side that is resisting amerikan imperialism is appealing to many of the MoA community hell I would/will be ecstatic on the day the whole rotten imperial edifice ends as all empires inevitably do.
I'm also aware that my posts pointing out that Kurds have a righteous sense of injustice, or that the feeling in 2010 among many Syrians that the ruling elite were stealing from the poor to give to the rich was understandable, have provoked a mob of emotional responses and ad hominems because the world's current mess is somewhat easier to come to terms with if protagonists can be neatly divided into 'the good guys' and 'the baaad motherfuckers'. The thing is though divvying everyone up into such neat moralistic categories does make finding a fair solution a helluva a lot more difficult to achieve.
ps the claim that the 'other' side is 'winning' because their debauched practices have them breeding much faster is as old as racism itself. I'm wary of all such claims because they almost always turn out to be deceits promoted by one side to engender fear among people whose support they need to garner in order to advance themselves.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 4, 2017 9:24:08 PM | 21
The Rohingya are in fact being persecuted, martyred, killed and displaced for decades now and that's not fabricated. They are people with literally no rights at all and have for long been free game to anyone who felt the urge to kill some stateless Muslim without risking to face prosecution ; actually the 2013 HRW article was pretty correct in its title: "All You Can Do is Pray". It was about time to address this issue and put pressure on the Burmese authorities to solve this problem lest we get a new Jihadistan in Myanmar with thousands of foreign jihadists pouring in (since non-western human relief alone doesn't seem to matter anymore and doesn't make enough for a valid excuse to act genuinely in this cynical era we're living thru).
Why now ? Well, better late than too late... or is it ?
Posted by: Conglomera | Sep 4, 2017 9:38:46 PM | 22
Then there's this angle:
"Myanmar is Southeast Asia's largest opium poppy-growing country and the world's second largest after Afghanistan. Shan State remains the centre of Myanmar's opium activities, accounting for 92 per cent of opium poppy cultivation, with the rest located mainly in Kachin State. In Lao PDR, the UNODC survey confirmed opium poppy cultivation in the three northern provinces of Phongsali, Xiangkhoang and Houaphan"
Posted by: Stumpy | Sep 4, 2017 9:58:40 PM | 23
james | Sep 4, 2017 6:41:14 PM | 10
What a stupid ignorant reply to Muslim Dude.
I've been following this from Thailand for more than 14 years; and Muslim Dude gave some good and accurate information.
Posted by: V. Arnold | Sep 4, 2017 11:19:13 PM | 24
Buddhist are not innocent Friendly Fuedalism - The Tibet Myth
Posted by: ProPeace | Sep 4, 2017 11:36:03 PM | 25
@24 v arnold.. thanks for your feedback..
Posted by: james | Sep 4, 2017 11:43:40 PM | 26
BTW the Dalai Lama admitted he was on the payroll of the CIA in the 1950s.
Posted by: ProPeace | Sep 4, 2017 11:49:47 PM | 27
Peter AU 1 | Sep 4, 2017 8:18:01 PM | 15
'Tony Cartalucci' (not his real name) is a whack job with very opaque sources of support. Just about everything he writes is bullshit, you can almost set your watch on it.
Posted by: qualtrough | Sep 4, 2017 11:53:09 PM | 28
Debsisdead | Sep 4, 2017 9:24:08 PM | 21
Terrific comment; thanks.
Posted by: V. Arnold | Sep 5, 2017 12:10:58 AM | 29
Political correctness in alternate media discredits it. Everything that China or Russia do is correct and US and Israel are the evil. While it is true in many cases, tying everything up with this theory will be the downfall. b mentioning Rohingya problem as a minor ethnic conflict is an understatement. See this documentary to gauge the Buddhist mindset in Myanmar.
"Over the centuries and the last decades there have been several violent episodes between the immigrants and the local people". How are they still immigrants after centuries?
If you rape women, burn villages and kill whole families, then how do you expect people not to turn extremist?
The bottomline is that rohingya must be accepted as Myanmar citizens and given citizenship. Otherwise different extremist organizations will exploit the situation. This whole issue must be resolved by involving Rohingya muslims; if they are satisfied with their lives in Myanmar, US or any other country will not be able to use them for their own purposes. Chechnya is a wonderful example. Otherwise insurgency will bleed Myanmar for decades.
Posted by: Bilal | Sep 5, 2017 12:43:40 AM | 30
The link is this : http://en.unifrance.org/movie/43554/the-venerable-w
Posted by: Bilal | Sep 5, 2017 12:45:07 AM | 31
qualtrough | Sep 4, 2017 11:53:09 PM | 28
You put up nothing to backup your crap.
Have you lived in Myanmar for some time? In trying to evaluate what is occurring there, I have not seen a post fom somebody who lives in the area and studies the various factions.
This piece from Bilal @30 "If you rape women, burn villages and kill whole families, then how do you expect people not to turn extremist?" makes a lot of sense. Import wahhabi clerics at the same time and bingo.
You look to be full of shit mate.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 5, 2017 1:25:07 AM | 32
I would have to put in a word for muslim dude as well. It is really a fucked up complicated world we live in.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 5, 2017 1:28:10 AM | 33
One of the great disappointments, for me, is the role now being played by Aung San Suu Kyi.
She has done little to nothing to stop the vilence against the Rohingha.
The Thai daily papers, especially the Nation, have painted her in a quite bad light.
I, personally, have lost a huge amount of respect for her...
Posted by: V. Arnold | Sep 5, 2017 1:39:23 AM | 34
"One of the great disappointments, for me, is the role now being played by Aung San Suu K"
She has been the NED candidate from the word go. She was good mates with the mad monk here in oz until he fell off his wall.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 5, 2017 2:03:29 AM | 35
Petri Krohn @ 20
....In most cases this will reveal the fakes. If the photos are authentic, then Google will surely know about them and return a better source.
...and why should I trust Google which supports or part of the Empire?
Posted by: OJS | Sep 5, 2017 2:05:04 AM | 36
Peter AU 1 | Sep 5, 2017 2:03:29 AM | 35
What is NED?
Posted by: V. Arnold | Sep 5, 2017 2:34:16 AM | 37
Petri Krohn | Sep 4, 2017 9:12:23 PM | 20
Your image search link does not work.
@OJS.. Petri Krohn has the runs on the board from The Gouta "Assad gasses his own people" bullshit.
Any image search will most likely do the job, but back when Au was getting involved in iraq/syria I did an image search for 40 thousand refugees trapped on a mountain, and there was none.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 5, 2017 2:34:19 AM | 38
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 5, 2017 1:25:07 AM | 32
I have lived next door for 30 years. I have traveled there a dozen times over the years. I studied the politics as a graduate student and studied the language for three years (don't claim to speak it!). But that is neither here nor there. Tony Cartalucci is about as reliable a source as Alex Jones.
Posted by: qualtrough | Sep 5, 2017 2:39:25 AM | 39
V Arnold "NED" National Endowment for Democracy.
qualtrough thanks for your reply. Studied as graduate student in what institution? Studying politics and language is no substitute for living with the people and understanding the culture?
Myanmar, as with other countries seems to be sandwiched between the hegemon and soverign states who give the middle finger to the hegemon.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 5, 2017 3:01:46 AM | 40
OT and just an ignorent thought. US multi culturalism means bending over, spreading your arse cheeks and acepting multiculturalism. A multi polar world on the other hand means standing face to face with other cultures and respecting the?? Is this the case?
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 5, 2017 3:11:51 AM | 41
They put Suu Kyi into power because they knew she and her deranged, violent followers would be the gasoline to the Saudi-funded militant fire. They also know that she is more likely to go along with the actual, ultimate goal - US troops in Myanmar right on China's border.
Also, the vast majority of Rohingya are not involved in the violence - they are caught up in the middle of it. Most have lived in Myanmar for generations and had previously lived in harmony with everyone else in Rakhine, just like Muslims all over Southeast Asia.
It is tempting to hammer this into some sort of "Islamist" narrative - but the truth is the number of "Islamists" vs. the 1.4 billion adherents of Islam doesn't even make up 1% of 1%.
It is critical to get as much correct as possible in the beginning of any crisis because the further the crisis goes, the further off target we'll all be if the basic facts aren't right.
Posted by: M. Martinez | Sep 5, 2017 3:40:43 AM | 42
Peter AU 1 | Sep 5, 2017 3:01:46 AM | 40
"NED" National Endowment for Democracy.
Oh Shit; didn't know that. But it's become obvious she's compromised.
I agree with your response to qualtrough; living with, and learning the language (speaking), of the people is extremely important. But he (qualtrough) should be given some credit for his knowledge over that span of time. Aso, I vaguely recall Cartolucci as a compromised writer/reporter.
Language is a window into the culture; it's been a critical part of my living here.
Last Sunday I was a surrogate father for a family friend's daughter (her father died when she was 14); what an incredible honor.
Posted by: V. Arnold | Sep 5, 2017 3:44:03 AM | 43
Based on the comments, it seems the Syria narrative has been rejected, only to be relegated to places like Myanmar.
No coherent historical timelines (including or excluding the question of British and Japanese colonialism), no assessments of conflicting classes or (class-based) political parties, organizations, militias, or civil institutions, generic statements on generic state oppression of a minority, 'something must be done (and never explained in practical terms, and never applied consistently, especially anywhere the U.S. has special interests),' 'China needs to be less practical,' 'ignore Israel, because the U.S. shouldn't be involved when it has genuine influence over a conflict, but should be involved when it can't find the respective conflict on a map,' maybe a question or two regarding blow back, a banal remark on the U.S. trying to establish military barriers to obstruct Chinese trade routes, no realistic frameworks regarding international diplomacy ('just apply some pressure,' which just means import and credit restrictions, or nothing diplomatically relevant), and finally, banal remarks like 'most Muslims and Buddhists are innocent in the conflict,' and we all float on.
I see why I gave up on the political left. Without a Lenin, or even a Stalin, we are literally useless.
Posted by: anonymous | Sep 5, 2017 3:51:15 AM | 44
I'll add; that after Aung San Suu Kyi was released I didn't follow things in Myanmar as closely.
After all, we here, have had our share of political intrigue; two military coups in 8 years; and the violence leading up to both of them.
But out here (about 60K to Myanmar border) we only knew from the news; nothing changed for us.
Posted by: V. Arnold | Sep 5, 2017 3:55:32 AM | 45
Its interesting that RT carried a 10 minute news report on the Rohinga yesterday.
The story interviews fleeing refugees, Bangladeshi border guards and aid representatives (US Christians) who unanimously called for intervention and access by the press.
The only mention of the Myanmar government was a statement that Suu Kyi had issued callous tweets condemning the (Muslim) terrorists, there was no government voice aired, or sought.
The crisis has been going on for years. Several years back boat loads of Rohinga refugees were either returned to Myanmar or imprisoned on Pacific island gulags by the Australian government with no public discussion of the reasons these people fled.
Posted by: Bolt | Sep 5, 2017 4:10:40 AM | 46
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