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Changing The Face Of Religion Last Updated: Oct 26, 2020 - 12:28:25 PM

Project Camelot Interviews David Icke about Consciousness and Reality
By David Icke
Jul 3, 2009 - 9:24:00 AM

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Project Camelot Interviews David Icke
Sedona, Arizona, February 2009

Ron: On  12 April 2009 I posted some notes I took of a conversation between David Icke, Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy in this excellent Project Camelot video interview in February 2009. The video is 2 hours, 8’ 21” and all of it is worth listening too. The first 35 minutes is about how David Icke started on his mission and some crucial experiences he had in the early years. From there until the end of the video he explains his views on the need to replace our false perceptions and ideas about reality with true consciousness. In my view David Icke is a superb light warrior and his analysis of humanity’s situation and the rise of human consciousness is truly informative and inspiring  See:

I have rewatched this video and expanded my notes and comments in the light of what Hatonn says in Phoenix Journal 31 about the brain, awareness and the centering conscious Mind of man’s Soul-will. See

It is apparent that David Icke uses the word “mind” to mean something much less than what Hatonn defines as “mind”. Hatonn says mind is the Soul-will and that only mind can think. David Icke seems to use “mind” to mean the so-called “thinking” man believes he is doing when really only performing sensed observation of sensed effects, that is, recording electrical sensations which inform him as to the nature of things observed by his senses.

In discussing 'Coma Paralysis' in Audio Session #51 on 26 May 2009 Monjoronson further confirms that mind is a separate mechanism from the body:
 '…  the body is not the mind mechanism.  The mind mechanism is completely separate from the body. Moral, immoral, ethical and unethical, asocial, antisocial and social decisions can be made even while the individual may be paralyzed. You can hate, you can love, you can make decisions about who you are, how you are, how you want to think.' See 

David Icke says ‘We need to move out of “mind” (what he refers to as this virtual reality game) beyond this biological computer which we call the body. In his definition mind deals in structure, it deals in hierarchy and it deals in apartness and sees everything as “a part” instead of part of the whole. This leads to polarisation and conflict. Accordingly he says ‘we need to change our point of observation so that we cease to see ourselves, vitally, and the world we think we are living in, in those terms and look at it from a point of view of CONSCIOUSNESS.

In effect then, David Icke is on the same page as Hatonn but using different terminology. Both are talking about man’s need to be centred in ‘his conscious awareness of the Light which centers him as a PERSON’ so that ‘he is then thinking as well as sensing.' (Hatonn).

Hatonn explains:

‘Electric awareness of observed “effects” of matter in motion is registered in the brain. It is most often believed that the brain “thinks” and “knows”. The brain, however, does NOT think, nor does it know. It is only a storehouse of recorded sensations much like the disc in your computer data system. The brain only “remembers” these records for man’s usage as he needs them, and for fulfilling the requirements of his body. The brain is a most complex state of motion expressed by waves of light pulsing in cycles.

States of motion cannot KNOW anything, nor can they THINK anything--they just ARE

The brain is a wondrous part of a machine, a human machine. Machines can express thoughts which are electrically projected through them, but machines are incapable of thinking the thoughts thus projected. Likewise machines can express knowledge but they cannot have knowledge. Likewise, machines can do marvelous things when patterned and controlled by knowledge--BUT THEY CANNOT KNOW WHAT THEY DO.

The centering conscious Mind of man’s Soul-will alone, thinks by projecting desire for creative expression through the brain machine.

The centering consciousness of man, the person, transforms information received by the senses into knowledge to the extent of which he is capable of recognizing cause in Spirit, back of the effect which his senses record. Until that transformation takes place, man is without knowledge, no matter to what extent his senses may have informed him, for information is not knowledge.’

And so it is.

David Icke says that if you are seeing life in terms of structure, apartness, hierarchy and limitation your awareness is not enlivened by consciousness and you are in “mind”, the realm of the [unthinking] biological computer. Man needs to be the observer of his “experiences” rather than unreflectively identifying them as being “out there” instead of examining them as sensations within. This habit of seeing everything as “out there” instead of just a set of energy vibrations being decoded “in here”, with all the misdirected “thinking” that entails has been foisted on humanity over millennia by an ages old conspiracy which Icke refes to as “The Five Senses Conspiracy”. The effect of that conspiracy has been to misdirect humanity so that most people misunderstand the nature of reality (our world) and their own identity (WHO they are).

David: ‘By far the most important thing we need to do is to get an understanding of the nature of reality… How can you get a grasp of your own life and get any kind of control of your own experience if you don’t know who you are, where you are, or the nature of the world you’re living in. And this information for me (David Icke) is by far the most important because it moves the point of experience from “in this world” to observing this world or a mixture of the two … And if you’re in this world and of this world then what’s coming is gonna be a bloody nightmare. If you become the observer as well as the experiencer becoming more conscious, then its much easier because that’s not you, that’s your experience your observing… this takes the edge off the fear of what’s happening.’ (Video at 48’)

We must be “in” but not “of” this world. We must stay in the observer mode: ‘Its funny really – when we find out .. we are gonna laugh for weeks – the thrust of the maze -  who are we?  What are we doing here ‘…and how do we interact with it?

What we need to realise is that this is a holographic “virtual reality” universe of enormous advancement compared to what we think. This is provable scientific fact.
  - its so good we think its real.
The five senses just decode vibrational information into electrical signals and send it to the brain and the brain decodes it to this construct which we think is outside there … but it’s actually inside us. The only place this world exists is in the decoding mechanism in our biological computer brains.

The five senses just decode vibrational information into electrical signals, send it to the brain and the brain decodes it into this construct that we think is outside there but its actually inside us, the only place this world exists. A so called solid world, a three dimensional world, is out there … we think, But actually it doesn’t exist out there, out there IS JUST VIBRATIONAL FIELDS. It exists in here (the brain) as we construct it. And even the brain is a decoded construct as well. It’s on an energetic level that we do this decoding really.

The manipulators [of humanity] KNOW that if we look out there for answers, believing that there is an “out there” instead of an illusory projection that’s going on in here [the brain] then we are never going to change anything.  The religions are in mind. They are all mind constructs, the religions. That’s why they have RULES AND REGULATIONS (and laws and a sense of limitation).

So where is it all coming from? In here. Oh … So those who don’t understand this are like people who don’t like a movie, standing in the theatre shouting at the screen instead of going to the projection box to change the reel. The projection is deep within us….  

Some research suggests that only 5% of behaviour and decisions that we make are with the conscious mind. I (David Icke) would say that’s not correct personally. I would say that 100% of what happens in this three dimensional reality is only in our head …actually is a projection and the conscious mind [I think the word “conscious” as used here just means our “unconscious” awareness] is not the decision maker AT ALL. It’s the observer and experiencer of it.

It literally is like a movie projector which comes from within, from the sub conscious where all those patterns are there which we are being influenced by and are effecting our projection and our reading of it. And it comes out of the subconscious and by the time it hits the screen, in here (the brain) symbolically on the movie theatre, IT’S A DONE DEAL. This [pointing to his heart and indicating heart-intelligence] is where the change has to take place within us, to change the projection which is our “conscious” [left brain?] mind’s experience. And people are so caught up in the “conscious” mind because that’s the only level at which they operate.  

People say: “I thought it” ‘Well how come that experiments have shown that the electrical changes and muscular changes to make an action happen, happen a split second before the conscious mind has decided to do it. Its because their playing it out. And so this talk about “We must go within …” this basic theme is absolutely right I would say, and what the whole conspiracy is trying to do is get us to look out there: Let’s go and protest, let’s go and do this, let’s go and do that  …(and so we get more of the same – the dialectic). WE NEED TO CHANGE THE PROJECTION!’

Kerry: ‘Consciousness is where the change has to happen. It’s not enough to be understanding in your mind and then do nothing. So it needs to be embodied in this body but we have to talk about who is in control. So if consciousness is in control and I can use this to do, for example, what we are doing here, which can be used to further change and push the change and help the change then this is a good thing. But its not enough to go in like Budda and simply sit in your mind and do nothing  Because doing nothing is also not the answer. We actually came here with a purpose, a game is being played out here and if you stay in consciousness and you are able to change your inner self and then mirror it outside and facilitate which is what your doing obviously, and obviously you embody this in your life.

You can’t actually demonstrate in the streets and get real results because its really: action, reaction; purely that. But you can join together and meditate and there are place for action that can change the world in a positive way.
The process must not stop there. It has to actually permeate everything. You have to embody your understanding in your life… We have to embody and live our reality.’

David: ‘The holographic projection is an open book of the inner us individually and collectively. So what we do to change the projection will change it.  

A lot of people I have come across and heard think that if you just sit and meditate, just go within, then that’s all you need to do. But this is a projection and it’s a projection from somewhere. So this projection is an open book of the inner us, individually and collectively. So what we “play out” in this experience says everything about our state of being.

And you can say “go within” and you can use it as an excuse to not “go without”. And you can go within and say “yes I go within and I meditate”. OK, So what’s happening in the projection as a result of what you are doing? The only projection that you are effecting is you sitting cross legged in the corner. What else is changing? Yes of course you can change things vibrationally to an extent, but you know, what is happening in the world is saying what’s happening in us and we can’t have missed that connection. So if we’re doing nothing to make a contribution to the kind of world we like to live in, in the physical world then that says something about the state of us within; that we’re not doing that. I see so many excuses being made by people who have becomes to a certain extent aware of some of what’s going on so they can justify to themselves why they are doing nothing.

People say to me: “You don’t tell us what to do.”
And I think: I talk about becoming conscious and all that stuff. I think that’s a start, BUT it ain’t for me to tell you what to do. And if you think that I have to tell you what to do then you’re not listening. Because this is about taking power BACK to the point where we project, rather than looking out here [pointing away] at a done deal.
Bill: ‘This seems to be an active paradox.  This is all an illusion and it all doesn’t matter but it is important enough for us to be talking about it.  … Brilliant conclusions are not enough, you have to live it otherwise the manifestation doesn’t go anywhere.’

(Video 1 hour) - David: ‘In that case it becomes intellectual, academic points of observation rather than consciousness which is something that just IS. The difference is between “the mind” and “consciousness.” “The mind” must serve consciousness. If it doesn’t serve consciousness mind starts to falsely identify us as our body …

Mind [as Icke defines it] is a biological (living) computer .. It has the ability to assess information and make decisions on it, to a large extent it has the ability to think, [Hatonn disagrees].. Mind starts to govern our sense of reality and give us a sense of false identity. And mind is about division, apartness, hierarchy, rules, regulations, laws, limitation. You can have someone in the New Age arena who talks about spirituality, talks about dimensions … and other levels but blatantly is stuck in “Mind” and the values of mind. I hear New Age people talking about “The Great White Brotherhood” and the hierarchy of the angels... That’s Mind talking!  Consciousness doesn’t do hierarchy. It just IS! All possibility. All that is. And so the same mind construct  - “the Mind” – can entrap a New Ager as it can trap in another part of “The Mind’ a Wall Street Banker. Its another religion.

Religion, and political parties and the New Age and all these things that we don’t call religious institutions, they are all the same construct. Consciousness just IS. Consciousness doesn’t think. Consciousness Knows. That’s why consciousness is silent when we access it. Because its got nothing to work out. Mind is where the chatter comes from.

To hold us in mind religions et al have to sell us something to rigidly believe in … Once you rigidly believe something you then call it a name. What are you? … What we are is what we do  … or a religion etc.
If you can tell me what you believe and give it a name, you’re in a prison… the belief system … the neurons fire off in a rigid pattern – a tiny little box which is the way your brain decodes reality.

Bill: ‘This is an active paradox?’

David:  ‘It matters in the sense that do we want to experience a reality that’s very, very unpleasant and controlling and limiting and frightening and stressful, or do we want to experience a reality that is loving, kind, where no one goes hungry in a world of plenty; where there is no war because no one would even consider the idea that it was a possibility or an option. That’s the choice we’re making.  That’s the choice we are making.
We are always consciousness and when we leave the body we’ll become at least much more aware of everything that we are now. So we’re always conscious; we’re all eternal consciousness. BUT the question is what kind of experience do we want here? That’s the choice.’

Kerry: A consciousness revolution … what we need is for everyone needs to get it…. Love …’

(Video 1 hr 10’) David: ‘Consciousness can “conscioustise mind and bring its awareness out of the level that it currently perceives reality.[Ron: This is on all fours with what Hatonn says].

Its important to realise that the game is not being played “out there”. What the five senses are doing is that they’re decoding vibrational information, turning it into electric signals and the brain then constructs this apparent reality out there, which is actually only “in here”. So the prime reality is vibrational. That’s where the change has to take place. Because as the change takes place there, the five senses decode DIFFERENT vibrational states into electrical signals.

The prime reality is vibrational. That has to change or this (our perceptions and awareness) can’t change. So if a hypnotist implants a program into a subject’s brain, NOT to decode a particular person’s vibrational level, the prime level of an external body through this (sensory and brain system) into a holographic so-called physical form which we see then the subject would decode all the other vibrational fields in the room into people and walls and furniture but because its like a computer being fire-walled off, he doesn’t decode the prime state of that person into the holographic apparent reality “out there” and so the person doesn’t exist in the subject’s head as a holographic form ie supposedly physical, so he can’t see the person and because there’s no one there what’s behind that “invisible’ person is visible.  

Our mind is a tool and our heart is a tool. We see with our brain but we actually “see” with our heart more than anything else.
The real level of the global [five senses] conspiracy where the world is being controlled is on a vibrational level. The reptilians and others who set this up operate outside this reality. They operate at the vibrational level that’s where the manipulation’s going. And we need to be kind to ourselves as well in understanding the challenges that we’ve faced; not least trying to understand a world that has been manipulated into a state which is to stop us understanding the world.  

 When we look at TV and newspapers we are just looking at a decoded version of a vibrational field – what we see are “physical (holographic) representations of the prime reality which is a vibrational field… Basically what they have done is pull a vibrational veil over us and if you can make it powerful enough and dense enough you focus people’s sense of perception into such a narrow area that they disconnect from an AWARENESS and therefore a deep effect in their perception of consciousness. You’re ISOLATING their point of observation into mind and that’s happening on a vibrational level which then plays out in what we call the physical world.

What’s vital and one of the great values in giving five sense information explaining logically why the world is not like people thought it was on the five sense level, everything starts to move then. So its important that the deprogramming of people’s manipulated sense of reality happens on multi levels. Its not just … “We must become spiritual, we must go within.” People say:
“Oh Alex Jones he just frightens people.”

HOLD ON A SECOND. Do you know what’s negative? It’s not information, its ignorance! That’s what’s negative. IGNORANCE! And if you want to be ignorant and therefore a manipulator’s party trick then you go ahead. And if you want to look at the information, the five sense information that I put out and Alex and many others put out and say:
 “Its negative, its frightening.”

Well the fact that you find it frightening instead of empowering because you now UNDERSTAND the game better and therefore you have more power to do something about it, then that is NOT a statement about those putting the information out it’s a statement about the way you are RECEIVING IT.

I hear people, you might call them New Age, who talk about letting go of fear and taking your power back, come to this workshop, we’ll show ya how to do it … then they say:
 “Aw ya mustn’t talk about this conspiracy its too negative. “

Every belief system, every mind construct seems to have a version of the cavalry coming over the horizon.

Here’s the cavalry, OK. Here’s the cavalry, there’s the cavalry [pointing to those present].
We need to understand that, because if we give our power away to other people, where do those other people actually stand physically as we give our power away to them?  “Out there” symbolically!  So what we do is give our power away into the illusion. AND then wonder why nothing ever changes.

The whole basis of the conspiracy is to persuade six billion people to give their power away every day. And the power used to control us is the power we give away. And the controllers say: “Thank you very much, thank you very much …”  as they take that power.  Take it back and the house of cards comes down. We’re holding it together in here [pointing to head]. We’re constructing the house of cards in here {pointing to head]. Great news. We can bring it down in here.

Kerry: ‘What we have been playing out is the “yang” construct in our world. Your talking about the heart. You follow your intuition. You have opened that door. That has to happen.’

David: ‘I take my intuition which has guided me and it has led me to information and it is also like a filter, I have a vibrational sensation when something is not true and something is true and another one when it may be partly true. That’s holistic. But the left brain’s still important for bringing those concepts down into a language of communication that people (that are stuck in the left brain) can assimilate because if you don’t talk in logical, from their perspective, terms that the left brain (which is under lock and key) can understand, then that key will never open.

Except on rare occasions when I am talking in a very small time scale … I will never talk about the five sense conspiracy without the nature of reality and the influence of consciousness and all the rest of it.

About the heart, I agree the heart is absolutely at “the heart” of this and much more powerful than the brain and much more powerful than the mind because it is what connects us through to consciousness.

And this conspiracy also, it’s a simple thing, in the deep shadows behind the people in dark suits are a force – whatever you want to call it – that understands how this works. So they’ve structured a society that is to close down all the channels to consciousness that isolate us in mind because then we’re playing in their stadium. And one of the key things is to close the heart. To close the heart. And if you want to open the heart and you want to become conscious what we need to do is ask the question: “What would consciousness do at this point?”

Would consciousness when faced with these circumstances say “Well what’s the best outcome for me? No. Consciousness would say, What is right, just, fair thing in this situation for me to do.” And if we, when we are faced with choices all through the day, ask that question “In these circumstances what would consciousness do", AND ACT UPON IT crucially, then everything changes and our life changes. Why? Because we are now starting to resonate with consciousness because we are operating in its realm. By doing what we understand consciousness would do in these circumstance we are vibrationally locking in to that level and therefore becoming more and more influenced by that consciousness.   
Doing “what’s good for me” – that’s mind, that’s locking you into mind!

Many New Agers and gurus talk about consciousness in complex terminology  which indicates that either they do not understand what they are talking about or they are seeking to take power from their potential audiences. If you really understand something you can put it in simple language. It is so simple. People talk about “We must become conscious”. It’s a lie. We ARE conscious. That is our natural state. What’s happened is  barriers have been put in place [with our acquiescence] which have symbolically created a concrete shell around our natural state. And this concrete shell is all the things that control people. Fear and stress and conflict, and seeking success and competition and all this stuff. It’s not that we have to become conscious, we are conscious. It’s breaking that shell and that shell is MIND domination.

We think how we talk.
Words are vibrational fields. Everything gets in at a vibrational level.
Consciousness naturally wants to bob to the surface like a ball being held under water. Eventually the conspiracy must fail as consciousness rises to the surface. The ball will get to the top of the water when the ball realises it IS the water.

Its about realising the nature of the game.

The capstone on top of the Illuminati pyramid is weak not strong. It depends on everything beneath holding it up. If even a small component below collapses the capstone is liable to fall.

The conspiracy is ALL processed in the left brain. What the conspiracy does is it put soldiers on the left brain’s boundary thus preventing information exchange with the right brain through the corpus callosum. When the left brain’s awareness starts to move and it starts to realise things are not as they seem the deprogramming can become rapid.

(Video 1 hr. 57’) David says he knows an “X” factor (an external influence) is coming which will ensure humanity will succeed in obtaining freedom as the spiritual revolution he has been talking about for almost 20 years changes our world. The end of this prison society is a Done Deal.

Becoming conscious is the bottom line of everything. Consciousness has been so manipulated that its at war with itself.

If people come from the heart they’ll know what to do. If people come from the head it will tell them a long list of things why there’s nothing they can do or why there’s no point in doing them. We’re at a fork in the road and symbolically, because it’s a balance of the two we are looking for ideally here, but symbolically it’s a choice between the head and the heart. Head domination or heart domination of our sense of reality. If we take the heart route then this world will transform from a manifestation of mind to a manifestation of consciousness. Has too, because this is just a projection.  This has to follow what goes on here. If we take the choice of mind then we are going to live in a global version of Nazi Germany within ten years.

My strong feeling is that the whole thing will collapse. I’d say in ten years  time  we’ll be deeply into a transition into a very different world.

Kerry: ‘The future is now.’
David: ‘And always was.’

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